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How Far Do You Take Modesty?

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How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Bren on 25th February 2013, 8:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

This could turn into a debate which would be cool with the dead debate faction...Anyway, how far do you take modesty? I personally don't see anything wrong with wearing shorts showing my knees if I'm at home or with some guy friends but I probably wouldn't around girls. These days it's not hard to be a stumbling block to someone and I wouldn't want to cause a girl to stumble.




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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sko on 5th April 2013, 7:52 pm

Renae wrote: I find this awesome; that people are able to distinguish a Christian through not only the way that that person acts, but also the way that that person looks and dresses, amazes me!

Just goes to show how bad our culture is. Being godly stands out.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Shalom on 7th April 2013, 3:11 pm

So what do you people think about skinny jeans? I personally love them and wear them all the time.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sunshine on 7th April 2013, 8:00 pm

Not that every swimsuit is like this, but I'll admit that I'm rather disappointed to find that even one piece swimsuits don't cover much. I personally wear an athletic shirt over my one piece swimsuit, as well as a longer pair of sports shorts. I just don't feel comfortable with so much of my shoulders, back, and legs exposed.

My personal opinion is that even one piece swimsuits are rather revealing, and shouldn't be worn without a top and bottom, but for those of you who think differently, I'm not against you! I know that these are tricky questions, and each of us should do as we feel God wanting us to. Smile


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Shalom on 8th April 2013, 8:06 pm

I wear a one piece without shorts or tank top and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jason on 8th April 2013, 9:53 pm

Personally I don't ind anything wrong with shorts that go to the knee line. My general rule of thumb is that if it doesn't go past my finger tips it isnt worn in public.

The other side of this is; There are certain T-shirts I would never wear because it sends an inappropriate message... Some are ok with it, and I have nothing against them but I just would never wear them myself.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by UNCLEBITTLES on 9th April 2013, 8:30 am

Shalom wrote:So what do you people think about skinny jeans? I personally love them and wear them all the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with them, I wear skinnys all the time and Imma guy.




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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Thor's Hammer on 9th April 2013, 9:56 am

Though my teacher who never said what he is for or against said that what you wear is your choice. If you think it will make your friends uncomfortable or yourself don't do it. Don't tell anyone else what YOU think they should do. He says it is between you and God.




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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jimmy Barclay on 9th April 2013, 12:30 pm

Sunshine wrote:Not that every swimsuit is like this, but I'll admit that I'm rather disappointed to find that even one piece swimsuits don't cover much. I personally wear an athletic shirt over my one piece swimsuit, as well as a longer pair of sports shorts. I just don't feel comfortable with so much of my shoulders, back, and legs exposed.

My personal opinion is that even one piece swimsuits are rather revealing, and shouldn't be worn without a top and bottom, but for those of you who think differently, I'm not against you! I know that these are tricky questions, and each of us should do as we feel God wanting us to. Smile

If this was directed at my comment(regard it as null if it wasn't) Cool
I do agree with you, I guess I should have made it a little more clear as to what I meant. As you say most one-pieces today aren't very great. The ones that I was referring to have closed backs, and usually come with a skirt(admittedly the skirt is pretty skimpy however) *asks himself why he ever joined this discussion, Razz . Anyways, hopefully that clears it up a little.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jesusfreak97 on 9th April 2013, 12:35 pm

Shalom wrote:So what do you people think about skinny jeans? I personally love them and wear them all the time.

I think they are cute, But If they are to tight, then I wouldn't suggest any should wear them. It sends the wrong message - If they are not tight, Then hey No problem Smile


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jesusfreak97 on 9th April 2013, 12:38 pm

Shalom wrote:I wear a one piece without shorts or tank top and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

There's is no problem with one piece's But as long as your covered up then its fine, If otherwise, you will have a problem. We as girls - need to cover up.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by underseasie on 9th April 2013, 12:57 pm

Shalom wrote:I wear a one piece without shorts or tank top and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Same here, though I think it's fair to point out, that all my swimsuits are hand-me-downs, not the ones you find in stores today. Some of them came with skirts, but the skirts always fall off while I'm swimming. But I also don't walk around places in my swim suit, as soon as I come out of the water, I cover myself up with a towel, or put on my coverup.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sunshine on 9th April 2013, 2:00 pm

Jimmy Barclay wrote:
Sunshine wrote:Not that every swimsuit is like this, but I'll admit that I'm rather disappointed to find that even one piece swimsuits don't cover much. I personally wear an athletic shirt over my one piece swimsuit, as well as a longer pair of sports shorts. I just don't feel comfortable with so much of my shoulders, back, and legs exposed.

My personal opinion is that even one piece swimsuits are rather revealing, and shouldn't be worn without a top and bottom, but for those of you who think differently, I'm not against you! I know that these are tricky questions, and each of us should do as we feel God wanting us to. Smile

If this was directed at my comment(regard it as null if it wasn't) Cool
I do agree with you, I guess I should have made it a little more clear as to what I meant. As you say most one-pieces today aren't very great. The ones that I was referring to have closed backs, and usually come with a skirt(admittedly the skirt is pretty skimpy however) *asks himself why he ever joined this discussion, Razz . Anyways, hopefully that clears it up a little.
I wasn't trying to direct it at anyone specifically. No I just thought I'd join the discussion, throwing my own personal opinion out there. Smile


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Bren on 9th April 2013, 4:52 pm

As a guy, when it comes to skinny jeans or skinny clothes in general, you should leave things up to imagination. It's not for every guy who sees your outfit to know your figure. I'll stop at that.




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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Shalom on 9th April 2013, 7:56 pm

Ok,so do you think girls should wear burkas?

My mom always makes sure we're modest and she doesn't have a problem if we wear tight clothing as long as we aren't showing too much.

God made the female figure and if it's so bad and meant to be hidden then I think He would have made us just like boys.

As far as swim suits go,I think a one piece without shorts or a shirt over it is fine,it doesn't send the same message as a bikini does.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Pound Foolish on 10th April 2013, 12:00 am

I've stayed out of this, even though it's a recurring topic
on both Odyssey boards... but sigh, it seems again everyone is wrong and must
be corrected.
Now, let's face it: stuff like this wouldn't pop up so much if it wasn't for
the fact we're a bunch of nerdy Christians who like being Christian so
much we'd actually listen to a radio show specifically geared toward
Christians. It's like we're some strange species that we need entertainment
tailor-made for us. And we love it. That's a good thing... usually. Not so much
when, for instance, Smile Awhile asks Mary Beth, "Are you
Christian?"... Because she was wearing pants!
Why yes, she is Christian thanks. And you?


Alas, it just keeps appearing… so here goes.
Being a beach-lover, one tends to get a different perspective on this kind of
thing. When you really love the beach... really love it... when it's
part of your heart... you get this funny idea in your head. Namely, the idea of
swimming is to (gasp) feel the water on your skin. That's just he way it is.
You feel the surge of a wave against your body, warm sand embracing you, sun
shine on your chest while floating on your back atop the sea... and in your
heart, it just seems so great. So, like most boys, I just wear the usual
swimsuit and go topless. Modesty-promoting companies DO make tops for guys, and
that's just silly. You're at first uncomfortable with showing so much of
yourself. But as time goes by, you love it. You're proud that you have an okay
figure and like showing it off, and you delight in the sensations of the shore.
In any case, Batgirl, that first verse means NOTHING in this context. It is
speaking specifically about worship. In, fact in most Bibles, it's headed
"instructions on worship." So women shouldn't try to be center of
attention at church (which is all to easy for some of you.) True. But it also
says things like women must be "quiet" and never "have authority
over a man." And then it goes on to say "For Adam
was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam
was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a
sinner. 15 But women[c] will be
saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with
propriety."
What word comes to mind? Just let it come.
Sexist.
The fact is, women are judged today on more than whether they
bear children. And many women who are just bursting with "faith, love and
holiness" are just unable to have them. And if you tell ANYONE that
wearing pearls is wrong, they'll laugh at you because we know it's not.
That's the way it works. We should be very careful with how literally we take
the Bible.
If you've ever worn pearls, don't feel guilty.


Incidentally, in the book of Timothy, it
also has instructions on slaves. Slavery is wrong. It never says as much. Far
from it, it’s simply some brief instructions on how to have a good relationship
between slave and master. It must be admitted that even Biblical rules do
become somewhat changed. Today we know slaver is wrong. Period. And we know
that pearls are harmless. And that women aren’t required to cover as much as
some would have them.


The Bible is always true. But… this is
where fairy tales come in. Fairy tales are a useful analogy for just about
anything. Bible included, though that may be odd. When a character does things
that are good in a fairytale, we know we should strive to copy them. But then
there are villains, and their example is good insofar as it shows what we shouldn’t
do.


Sometimes, ideas in the Bible are clearly
what we shouldn’t do. This isn’t to say they are inapplicable to modern life in
many ways. Taking the rules on slaver again, we could look at them as an
analogy of the relationship between worker and employer or child and parent.
That sounds weird, but it simply says, “Those who have believing masters
should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers.
Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to
them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves. False
Teachers and the Love of Money These are the things you are to teach and
insist on.” As you can see, that’s good advice if applied to many modern
situations.


So does all this mean women don’t need to be modest?


No.


It’s that we all need to adhere, men and women alike, to
what we personally believe to be modest. But there’s not a Biblically set
standard for neither it, nor are we obliged to accept those of whatever church
we’re in, or necessarily even of our parents. For instance, if you had a Muslim
parent, then… rebellion time.
One thing to keep in mind: modesty has nothing to do with convention. It's actually CONVENTIONAL for us nerdy ultra-Christians to be modesty nuts. But what is conventional doesn't determine what's right. We believe this, but we often don't practice it. And few of use would dream we're confirming by being modest, but in the end we are.

Morality does not confirm to convention.
Many say kissing is wrong in America, but not other countries where it's just a courtesy. But this is not so. Morality has nothing to do with culture. For cultures are made of individuals. And its those individual opinions that matter. Not a mass. Single people. And if a person truly believes that to do something good is actually terribly wrong, then they have committed sin in their heart. And if they do wrong but believe it right, then before God, they remain as innocent as a lamb. But the wrong would still be wrong. Right now, millions upon millions murder their babies every year, no matter what those mothers and "doctors" believe, this. Is. Evil.
But if a mother really and truly believed with all her heart that her baby wasn't a baby, then she would be innocent of sin.

Our beliefs are made in individual hearts. And how we dress is no exception.
On the other hand, there are some hard and fast rules. We
know it’s immodest to walk out naked, right? Oh good. However, there’s quite a
bit of blurry territory between that. It should be agreed that bikinis do
indeed arouse males in a way that’s definitely impure. There’s a certain
attractiveness to it, like many sins… and to allow some Pound Foolish
bluntness:


Bikinis are adorable.


Girls tend to look gorgeous in them. But again, we know it’s
wrong. Somehow we know, we know that it ceases to be a matter of opinion there.
It’s just a fact. Something comes into guys’ hearts that shouldn’t happen. But
most women who wear do so innocently, and most guys who look at them don’t
quite realize they are either. It’s just normal. Part of life. And believe me,
this girl lover is not as white as he’d like here. So, modesty isn’t just an
opinion. There is a reality to it.
Actual facts. By and large though, it’s up to the ladies to decide. And men, to decide if they want to wear speedos. (DON'T unless you have Michael Phelps legs. Otherwise girls do NOT like that. )Personally,
I barely even notice tight clothes on girls, apart from being cute. And I’d say they’re
absolutely fine, and they shouldn’t arouse anything like lust. Nor two piece swimsuits
that cover the same amount as a one piece. Practically speaking, there’s just
no actual difference between a standard one piece and a tankini. And if you’re
wearing a tee shirt and shorts to go swimming…


Kid, you’re missing out.


Last edited by Pound Foolish on 10th April 2013, 12:18 pm; edited 2 times in total


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sko on 10th April 2013, 10:55 am

Thanks for writing that. Hopefully we can all happily agree and the debate will die off... eh, who am I kidding. The reason this debate's still going is because people love to debate it.

Personally, I don't have much I could add to the discussion, but I will say that modesty is deeply rooted in our culture. I'm not saying that carefully complying with modesty is wrong, on the contrary, I think it's important. But, nobody's going to hell just for wearing the wrong swimsuit, unless it's sin that directed the swimsuit choice in the first place.

Pound Foolish wrote:And if you’re
wearing a tee shirt and shorts to go swimming…


Kid, you’re missing out.

Agreed. Totally. Very Happy


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jason on 10th April 2013, 2:23 pm

Here's the thing, as a guy I also swim without a shirt. However, I think modesty is not only what you wear, but also how you act while wearing what you do. When I go swimming do I flaunt myself around and show off my stuff? No, partly because there's not a lot to flaunt... But also because doing and wearing certain things creates a picture that I don't want to be associated with.

I've been to a church camp where the guys are requested to wear shirts and the girls requested to wear one piece suits. I don't believe that there's anything wrong with stressing the need for modesty. Yes it does have a lot to do with your own personal convictions.

Pound Foolish wrote:It’s that we all need to adhere, men and women alike, to
what we personally believe to be modest. But there’s not a Biblically set
standard for neither it, nor are we obliged to accept those of whatever church
we’re in, or necessarily even of our parents. For instance, if you had a Muslim
parent, then… rebellion time.

I believe our parents have a good impact on how we should dress, and behave and even believe. Sure once we get older we can begin deciding for ourselves how we want to go about things. But on the other hand, modesty is a quality that I'm thankful that my parents taught me. Above everything else it reflects what you personally value.
(And this is off subject but, if my parents were muslim, I'd go along with it until I was old enough to think otherwise.)

The bible may not have specific guidelines as to what modest is, and maybe it's open for person preference; to a degree. I think for guys there's less to really be careful about. But in any case, modesty is important.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sunshine on 10th April 2013, 6:14 pm

Sometimes, taking part in such discussions as this seems pointless. We're all one body in Christ, and while it is good to talk through these things, it is important that we accept our differences, whether it be more or less conservative. Smile Please do not think that I am speaking to anyone directly, but I'm saying this from reading through this whole topic, and reading similar topics in the past. As Paul put it:

"For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:

    “As I live, says the Lord,
    Every knee shall bow to Me,
    And every tongue shall confess to God.”


So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way."
(Romans 14:7-13)

At one point, it is good to discuss things like this. I have discussed things like this topic with my friends, simply asking for their view point. We accept that we may not agree on a certain point, but that it shouldn't ruin our friendship. Somehow, whenever I see topics like this on forums, it seems that people state their opinion, and agree with certain people, but the topic must always be debated.

For most of this, I don't really feel that it is worth adding my own comments, because it can cause dispute and/or hard feelings. But there is one thing that has been said, that I would like to make a comment on:

Shalom wrote:God made the female figure and if it's so bad and meant to be hidden then I think He would have made us just like boys.
The female figure is not bad, but because of sin, men lust over it. While we don't have to wear a flour sack to completely protect our feminine figure, we do want to protect it to an extent, so that guys don't see every curve of our body. Yes

There is a principle that Leslie Ludy* had presented to use when choosing our clothes, which I consider to be good: Ask myself: would I feel comfortable having a guy touch that part? If it were something like my elbow, then yes, it would basically be like having an escort. But if it were something like my stomach, then no, that would be considered sexual. If I wouldn't be comfortable with a guy touching it, then I shouldn't expose it. The same goes for tightness of clothing - if I wouldn't be comfortable with a guy touching it, then I shouldn't let him see the shape of it.

Not only do we want to protect ourselves from guys seeing things that they shouldn't, but we also want to do it out of consideration for our brothers in Christ. Smile We don't want to prompt their thoughts towards impure things because of seeing things such as the curve of our body (not that they try to think about it! - but it is a commonly shared struggle between both genders). Yes

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Amarinda on 10th April 2013, 8:52 pm

@John, so basically you think girls should just wear sweats and a T-shirt?
And not get to look good?




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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Shalom on 10th April 2013, 8:53 pm

Thank you,PF!!!

I was starting to think that I needed to look like a weirdo.

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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Pound Foolish on 10th April 2013, 11:40 pm

However, I think modesty is not only what you wear, but also how you act
while wearing what you do. When I go swimming do I flaunt myself around
and show off my stuff? No, partly because there's not a lot to
flaunt... But also because doing and wearing certain things creates a
picture that I don't want to be associated with.
Well put! But to clear something up, are you saying I insinuated one should try to "flaunt" one's body? By "show off" I only meant it's more exposed than usual, and people sometimes notice and appreciate that, which is a good feeling. How would a guy "flaunt" anyway? Do a chest-dance like that prince in Brave?
Sure once we get older we can begin deciding for ourselves how we want
to go about things. But on the other hand, modesty is a quality that I'm
thankful that my parents taught me. Above everything else it reflects
what you personally value.
(And this is off subject but, if my parents were muslim, I'd go along with it until I was old enough to think otherwise.)
To sum up, you just said children should believe lies rather than seek the truth.
Ask myself: would I feel comfortable having a guy touch that part? If
it were something like my elbow, then yes, it would basically be like
having an escort. But if it were something like my stomach, then no,
that would be considered sexual.
Sunshine, I wouldn't be comfy if every girl who walked by touched my chest. But that's because as you say, it's a sensuous act special to a relationship, not because there's anything unseeable about my chest... I like to think. I agreed with a lot of what you said.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Jason on 10th April 2013, 11:55 pm

Pound Foolish wrote:
However, I think modesty is not only what you wear, but also how you act
while wearing what you do. When I go swimming do I flaunt myself around
and show off my stuff? No, partly because there's not a lot to
flaunt... But also because doing and wearing certain things creates a
picture that I don't want to be associated with.

Well put! But to clear something up, are you saying I insinuated one should try to "flaunt" one's body? By "show off" I only meant it's more exposed than usual, and people sometimes notice and appreciate that, which is a good feeling. How would a guy "flaunt" anyway? Do a chest-dance like that prince in Brave?
I wasn't insinuating that you said to flaunt. I was only saying that some guys act immodest along with swimwear.


Pound Foolish wrote:
Sure once we get older we can begin deciding for ourselves how we want
to go about things. But on the other hand, modesty is a quality that I'm
thankful that my parents taught me. Above everything else it reflects
what you personally value.
(And this is off subject but, if my parents were muslim, I'd go along with it until I was old enough to think otherwise.)
To sum up, you just said children should believe lies rather than seek the truth.

I said no such thing. If I gave that impression it's simply because I didn't go in detail. What I was getting at was as children we believe from what we are taught. When we reach a certain age we begin to really question and explore what we really believe vs what we've been taught.


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Thor's Hammer on 11th April 2013, 11:17 am

I agree with Jason. No church or organization has it all right. Even my parents say to take whatever we are taught and compare it to the Bible.



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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by orangie on 11th April 2013, 12:21 pm

Thor's Hammer wrote:I agree with Jason. No church or organization has it all right. Even my parents say to take whatever we are taught and compare it to the Bible.
Yep, I agree. My mom says that modesty starts with the heart. Not with the outside stuff. Like Jason said, it's how you act. You can dress modestly and act immodestly.
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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

Post by Sunshine on 11th April 2013, 1:18 pm

Pound Foolish wrote:
Ask myself: would I feel comfortable having a guy touch that part? If
it were something like my elbow, then yes, it would basically be like
having an escort. But if it were something like my stomach, then no,
that would be considered sexual.
Sunshine, I wouldn't be comfy if every girl who walked by touched my chest. But that's because as you say, it's a sensuous act special to a relationship, not because there's anything unseeable about my chest... I like to think. I agreed with a lot of what you said.
Embarassed I actually wasn't trying to imply that towards both guys and gals as far as the chest goes. I don't necessarily have a problem with guys showing their chests when it comes to things like swimming. I was mainly mentioning that in accordance with Shalom's post. Wink


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Re: How Far Do You Take Modesty?

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